Finished: 04 AM Wed 25 Jul 18 UTC
Private Furnace of Affliction
2 days /phase
Pot: 1800 D - Autumn, 2139, Finished
World War IV (Version 6.2), WTA, Hidden draw votes, ChooseYourCountry
1 excused NMR / no regaining / extend the first 2 turn(s)
Game drawn

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Chat archive

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10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: GameMaster: Please remember that negotiations before the game begins are not allowed.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (BobRoss): Please forgive me for "negotiating" prior to the start of the game, but can we all agree to ready through that build round asap?
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (Captainmeme): Yep... This still leaves the issue of Ind only getting 2 builds now. I'm going to have a look through the code and see if it's something I can fix.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (BobRoss): Hmm.. hope you can make it work Cap. Otherwise i'd suggest people just fill in orders to bounce with their own units and ready asap until the 2nd building phase? Will take a bit more time probably, but should be workable.

Sorry for bringing in another question, but it might be important to state this rule beforehand: Are people now still allowed to create different builds than they originally did? I know for certain there have been negotiations amongst several people regarding what type of unit to build & where. If someone has used that to his advantage, he might now lose that edge on one of his neighbours.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (Captainmeme): Good news: I found the issue, and it's incredibly easy to fix.

Bad news: The fix needs database access.

I've sent Oli an email about it. I hope he responds before the game starts.

As for your question - Ideally, no. They should build exactly the same thing as before (except Indonesia, who can choose his build for Jak). However, I have no record of who built what.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (mouse): Best password. Just saying. :p

Honour system works fine for getting the same builds. If someone changes, their neighbours should know - and take into account what that says about their ability to stick to agreements going forward.

(Out of interest with the issue - is it with Indonesia, or with Jakarta directly?)
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (Captainmeme): The issue is the autobuild code. The way it works is that it creates the dropdown boxes at the start of the game with the orders already filled in, so if the player misses the phase, those orders are still carried out. The problem is that Indonesia's preset orders are:

Build Fleet Jakarta
Build Army Palembang
Build Fleet Jakarta

The game sees that and thinks 'hey, those two orders are the same, so I'll merge them into one dropdown box' which means Indonesia only gets two dropdown boxes that phase, despite having 3 builds available.

It's a very simple fix because it just requires that 'Jakarta (Jak)' is replaced by 'Surabaya (Sby)' in one of the two lines - but Oli is the only person who can make that change.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (ishirkmywork): Let's just play and not attack Indonesia until spring of the third year.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (Technostar): The problem is that Indonesia can only possibly get 5 builds the second year without their third build, so their handicap remains.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (Hirnsaege): that would not be the same ... Sby could be anywhere else in second year when built in first year.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (ishirkmywork): I'm just saying if we can't fix it I'll volunteer to be Indonesia. I got no problem fighting long odds. Ride or die.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (bluecthulhu): If we can't get it fixed, then one quasi-solution would be to play the sealanes variant where perhaps, the Indonesia problem does not exist
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (slypups): Or we do the sit around solution so that Indonesia builds his third unit at the end of year 1 while everyone just holds for a year (hopefully with quick orders).
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (Samj): Or he can die quickly like I did when I drew Indonesia... ;-)
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (CCR):
I think this is exact problem we had: all holds are understood as nmr's by the code, all nmr's = cancel.

Everyone who doesn't want anther nmr to their record must make a self bounce (or could a patient moderator do it?)
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (BobRoss): Either self bounce or support hold your own units. That should work I guess.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (mouse): Catholica is the only one forced to bounce, I think, everyone else can get at least one support hold in regardless of moves.

(actually, would a support for a move that doesn't happen work fine?)
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (mouse): regardless of builds*
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (CCR): Sure, a support to a move is still a valid order, don't matter if it fails! Self bounces are not the best option, they require two orders; whilst one valid/failed support is enough for everyone.
10 Aug 17 UTC Spring, 2101: (slypups): Huh - you would think a readied "Hold" order would not be considered an NMR, as opposed to a mere default unsaved order. But I understand the desire in the code to get the players active.

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