Only an obligation to post that they have extended the game for the holiday. Is that not better than having to get into a discussion later with an upset player because a unilater decision was made and no reason given?

1) I believe an exceptional extension should only be made if a majority of players agree.

2) Ideally, that extension should happen through normal means (the Extend button) to avoid bothering the mods - who already have plenty of things to do.

3) And yes, I believe the player who has made such a request has the ethical obligation to warn the others about it.

Personally, if I think a holiday will harm my game, I will ask my fellow players myself and suggest an Extend rather than bother the mods. We vote, and if a majority is reached we extend.

If we don't have a majority, well, we can't push the whims of the minority against the majority, right? It's every individual player's duty to plan in advance (Diplomacy games can last weeks!) and make sure they can follow up with their duty.

First of all, I would like to thank the Administrators team to bring that question in the Forum.


1° There is an "Extend" button and a rule that specifies that "If 2/3 of the active players vote Extend the the [sic] current phase will be extend [sic] by 4 days.".
In that case, why do some players allow themselves to ask Extends in another way ?
And in that case, why do some Administrators allow themselves to grant the Extend ? The Administrators should simply answer to the player that an Extend has to be asked in the game itself.

2° Why would the request for an Extend made by one single player be granted, even though it may not be the choice of the qualified majority of the other players ? The only answer that I can find would be that an Extend should be granted whenever it is asked. But then, why, does the rule specifies that "If 2/3 of the active players vote Extend the the [sic] current phase will be extend [sic] by 4 days." ?
If an Extend should be granted whenever it is asked, then the Extend button should be removed, or, better, the rule should be changed and specify that "If one single of the active players vote Extend the current phase will be extended by 4 days.".

3° The players know their game much better than the Administrators do. For example, the large game gopher27 is talking about is a Divided States game (variantID=105). That variant is made is such a way that, if at least one player NMRS during the first year, there will be an automatic Extend whose duration is equal to the Phase length. In the game gopher27 is talking about, a few hours before the first Spring turn happened, a player asked directly to the Administrators team an Extend and an Administrator, who has a life like most of us too, gave generously some of his time to consider the situation and to make the decision that he thought was the best one : he granted a 24-hour Extend. I thank that Administrator very much for his volunteer work but nonetheless he made a wrong decision because the 24-hour Extend did not even prevent NRMs and we had anyway a full Phase Extend.

4° I have always failed to understand why some players consider that holydays are periods of time when they have less time to play Dipomacy. Is that because many players play Diplomacy at work ? Or at school ?
I understand that travelling can impair the ability to check games but travelling happens both during holidays and work, or school, periods.

5° YES : as a player, I would like very much to know that one of my games has been extended. Checking one of my games and seeing that the next Phase will happen, for no apparent reason, at a different moment than the one it should gives a feeling that anything can happen without even being told about it.


As conclusion, why don't we all play as gentlemen ? If one player needs an Extend, he simply asks for it and he has the courtesy to give a reason ; then, the other players, have the courtesy, the generosity, the fair play, whatever you call it, to grant the Extend. The 2/3 majority rule prevents any abuse from some players who would want to delay the game for some unfair reason.


I would like that the Administrators take a clear posture and state what the rules are.

I think the mods did the right thing. I was looking at the game that morning. There were about to be 9 NMRs. I requested an extend. They granted 24 hours.

By using the extend button, 34 players on that map would have to vote yes. With 9 players AWOL, it would have been impossible to get the votes in time.

The special rules state: "Custom Start:
The game starts with a build phase for every power. If a player does not check in during the first build phase his status is immediately set to "Left" and the country gets a "default build" so another player can take over without a weak start."

Not sure where the part about auto extending for Spring 21 is. And did it even extend a 2nd time? Not sure it did.

In fact, only 3 players (maybe 4) ended up NMRing, so I think overall it was the right thing to do in order to avoid complete unbalance.

So there you go. It was me. Yell at me or get over it. I'd do it again and have no regret.

I understand the mods needing to make emergency extends. I had a heartattack last June. I still managed to get my orders in but an emergency extend could have been enacted. The only real issue to me on those is communication.

As was pointed out, the game gopher extended would have extended any way. So it wasted half a phase. As far as the reason, the player in question knew it was a holiday and should have planned accordingly.

But in the end, it came down to communication. You must tell us why you are extending or pausing if you do so.

I should have communicated it on the board. You are correct.

I don't know if that instance has no NMR turned on or not.

Shouldn't it be:
If 2 or 3 of the players vote "Extend" then the phase is extended?
This could prevent abuse of the button and could allow for certain exceptions.

Thank you, Mapu, for giving us your reasons. It helps to better understand the situation.

It is true that it is not written anywhere that the Divided States variant (variantID=105) is made is such a way that, if at least one player NMRs during the first year, there will be an automatic Extend whose duration is equal to the Phase length. It would help if that was added in the variant description.

And it is a fact that, after the 24-hour Extend that was forced, we had another Extend that lasted 50 more hours (i.e. the Phase length).

The fact that there was a useless Extend is not such a big deal, what bothers me more is that it came unexpectedly without any notice.

I need a hug!

I'm taking my mod hat off and responding personally here. My opinions are my own and do not reflect in any way those of other mods or the team in general. I will take a day or so to consider just stepping down from the mod team, and they may make the decision for me after reading this post. I know the preference is that I let it go and let it pass, and I usually do, but once in a while shit needs to be said.

Trying to help out here too often turns into a shit storm. Congratulations, we're an internet comment section in board game form. In a community built of people from all over the world and the spectra of age, politics, etc., it is a miracle that broad agreement happens even as often as it does. As a mod and a frequent tournament director, I have been endlessly amazed by the constant stream of unexpected issues that can arise, turning easy enjoyment into complicated, tense messes. Some here seem to want to legislate every conceivable minor permutation. "Section 54.6756m of Rule 974f clearly states that when Player X scratches his ass, Regulation 65345 shall be invoked, requiring a response according to Ordinance XVII of the Second Book of Important Statutes, Page 874, Column 3, wink wink nudge nudge say no more..."

Is that what you want? No matter how minutely precise an operating manual might get, ***there will always be issues that come down to a judgement call, and there will always be someone whose sensibilities are offended***

I've got two things to address, and then I’ll get off my soapbox:

First, the incident in question. Easter Sunday, I was at my in-laws' house with my extended family, between brunch and watching the toddlers run around looking for eggs. I opened my browser on my phone, vDip was already open and I saw a mod forum post alert. Being a mod, I habitually check when I see that, in case there is something time-sensitive. I read the extend request. (Uh oh, the wife's calling me outside.) I opened the game link and saw 2 hours remaining before the turn. (Whole family is calling me now, what are you doing, come outside the kids are waiting.) I saw a large number of red exclamation points when I scrolled down the page. (Dude, what are you doing, everyone is waiting for you.) I made a judgement call, extending the game by 24 hours. I rejoined my family and enjoyed the rest of the holiday with them. When I next had time to engage with vDip, I went to the game I had extended, read the inevitable bellyaching, and posted my explanation and apology for not explaining sooner.

How often does this happen? Is it really a problem? I mean, big picture, head out of your ass, step back take a deep breath. Is this really a problem? YCHTT, you keep going on about communication -- in the game, in the mod forum, here in this thread. I made a judgement call. I erred in not immediately posting an explanation in-game, and I COMMUNICATED that, in-game, with an explanation and an apology. Let me now communicate to you that I apologize that my communication was not actual acceptable communication, but instead some form of non-communicative anti-communication communication.

youtube.com/watch?v=KniUNdVZvH4

I understand that we as players want to know the rules, want to be able to reliably predict what will happen in and with the games that we dedicate so much time to. And this brings me to my second point. This mod team does its level best to provide a platform upon which you enjoy (or don’t as the case may be) playing a game, in abundant variation, with people from all over the world. FOR FREE. This is not a government, it’s not the police department, it’s not a bureaucracy, it’s not your parents. There are a handful of people who volunteer their time, largely as a means of giving back and contributing to this awesome FREE online community. We can’t legislate every possible scenario. We most definitely cannot please everyone. Occasionally something like this Apocalyptic Extension happens. That will not change, because there will always be new situations and humans are here trying to make the right decisions about them.

It’s absolutely acceptable to question a mystery extension. But this has gone well over the line of reasonability. It was explained. It’s unfortunate that this existential catastrophe is still upsetting some, but fortunately this is not a detention center – all are free to seek better conditions on other Diplomacy websites. I used to play regularly on the Spanish Diplomacy site, until it simply vanished one day, permanently and without warning. It was an eye-opening event that made me really appreciate what vDiplomacy consistently provides, and I will appreciate that until the day it no longer does. In the meantime, I’m profoundly grateful for the site, the community, the staggering array of variants, the mod team that volunteers – usually without complaint – to keep it functioning and ever-improving, and the players who are rational enough to accept that it may not always be perfect, but it’s pretty damned good.

Doc - the explanation came after the concussion and queries. Perhaps while you were there extending the game, you could have posted a quick "I extended the game for Easter. Go enjoy the extra time". It was too late by the time you got around to it.

And I'll point out this thread was made by a mod. I was finished discussing it in the mod forum. I had my voice heard and was glad that the message got through. But a mod put this here and asked for input. So go hitch at your fellow mods for starting it back up.

Yup, getting Diplomacy players to agree on ANYTHING is like herding cats. It can't be done. That said - Dr.Rec, please don't step down from being a Mod. You've been doing a great job recently and we want you to continue.

The rest who are arguing about about this issue -v we've already had a very motivated and dedicated individual step down and remove himself from this community entirely because of just this problem. Guys deal with it. It's 24 hours not the end of the world. Yes a small note in global would have been appropriate, but don't get all witch-huntery over this issue.

Kaner, gopher asked for input. Had the thread not been created by a mod, there would be no discussion. It was over and done with.