Got more info? That should say...

We've all thought about it, but military service is for suckas.

Just like yo momma

There was a time not too long ago when honorable men entered the service out of a sense of duty to their country. But now most enlistees are looking for "what do I get". The days of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" have passed and the youth of today are looking for everything to be given to them. They have an overinflated sense of entitlement and no sense of responsibility or duty to any cause or creed unless it's the cause of the moment.

+1 YCHTT

Generation Hand-Out.

Obviously draug, you and I both know marines don't have "glamorous" treatment. That's for the fly boys

:rolls eyes:

@YCHTT.....as someone who teaches 20 year old everyday, I can't say that I see what you describe relative to when I was 20. I'd actually say that nihilistic self-absorption seems slightly less prevalent. My aunt and uncle retired from the army about 10 years ago and they both went in for the benefits and spoke about "what they got" with a fair degree of honesty my whole life. That hardly makes them less inspired by duty or patriotism. My other uncle who was in the navy was one of the most morally and ethically repulsive human beings ever to walk the Earth. I find it difficult to believe that he ever did anything in his life that wasn't entirely about himself.

The Marine Corps has an officer candidate school in Quantico, Virginia. Information can be found here:

http://www.marines.com/becoming-a-marine/officer-candidates-school

The above reference to naval officers joining the Marines is with respect to graduates of the US Naval Academy, some of which are allowed an option of joining the Marine Corps as their initial duty assignment. This choice is based on a priority of class ranking, and physical requirements. However, this is not the only way to become a Marine Corps officer. Officer Candidate School (OCS) is another path. Your chances of getting into the school are better with a four year degree, and they have certain preferences of field of study that would be useful to the Corps.

I do not know the present status of the reserves with respect to OCS, but they have offered this route (via reserves) in the past.

Yeah, but you don't just enlist in the Marines as an officer is what I was getting at. You can have a 4 year degree and be an officer without ever attending enlisted boot camp in the other three services. Every Marine officer who didn't come from the Navy was an enlisted man first.

And even Marine reservists go through 13 weeks of the toughest non-special forces boot camp you can experience. By comparison, the Air Force is 6 weeks long and get weekend passes for crying out loud!

That's simply not the case. You do not have to enlist or come from the Navy to become a Marine officer. The requirements are listed on the website that I provided, and they have been very similar for decades.

You do not just "enlist" as an officer into any service branch. Officer commissions are made after attending the military academies or completing officer candidate school. Some enlisted men are invited to attend OCS, but there are other ways to obtain a commission.

Ruffhaus is right, I called a recruiter, and realized how I need to get in 10X the shape I am in now. Hahaha

@YCHTT
you don't get weekend passes in A.F. basic. Also, most A.F. tech schools last several months which is why the initial basic training is only 6 weeks. Only deep into tech school is it possible to get weekend passes.

@Raro - Yes, you do, or at least a day pass. I know a young man I. The AF now who got a weekend pass during boot this past summer. He had to be back by lights out roll call, but his entire platoon (or whatever the AF equivalent is) was given Saturday leave several times during basic.

Oh, and the tech school excuse is just that, an excuse. Marines do 13 weeks of basic (12 plus service week) then go on to schools that can be several months as well. When I was in, my advanced schooling at Little Creek was 6 months. The AF uses that as an excuse. Of course, they don't need the front line discipline out of their enlisted troops that the Corps does. And they don't have to be as capable physically and with a rifle and a sidearm, so the second half of Marine boot is pretty much a waste for them.

While I enjoy a good poke of fun at the Air Force ("Air Force wings are made of lead) there's no need to exaggerate the rigidity of the Marine Corps. That goes without saying. Yet while it's perfectly evident that the Marine Corps boot camps and OCS programs are more physically demanding, it's not not like the other service branches are Club Med. And the Marines are Quantico and Camp Lejune get weekend liberty during their programs as well.

You've made some pretty bold statements about the Corps implying as if you're a member. If so, congratulations and thank you, but your multiple inaccuracies lend some cause for doubt on that.

I served from 1984 to 1988. Some things may have changed, but have no doubt, I was a Marine. Of course OCS and Camp Lejeune (that's how it is spelled) get weekend furlough. But not San Diego and Parris Island do not. Those are boot camps. The closest we came was two cattle truck trips to the theater where we got a couple hours of "entertainment". One of the movies was Yentl. I volunteered for fire watch that evening and stayed behind at the barracks on watch and catching up on some paperwork for the Senior DI (I was the platoon's scribe).

At this point, I would say that money is the only reason to serve that is both legit and ethical.
I consider loyalty a virtue, but I can't think of a single country right now that needs recruits and has military plans/operations that I could possibly agree to, let be serve it out of loyalty.

Loyalty is good, loyalty to a nation simply because it's the nation where you were born is called nationalism and I think we'd have less people dying a pointless death if more people would agree with me that if you want to.serve, you should serve the people (read: people of all nationalities. Nothing as irrelevant when it comes to what is right as where you were born IMO), not the government. Those are sadly two different things these days.

We will have to agree to disagree. But then I have actual experience and know first hand that not all military service involves killing and/or destruction. I've handed out life saving blankets, food, and clean water to people recovering from natural disasters while in uniform. That happens today as well. You only know about the wars because the wars male headlines, but our military also performs humanitarian services to people around the world. They assist in search and rescue operations at sea and in land and they are often the first to put themselves in harms way to protect innocents from certain death. Death before dishonor is more than just a motto... For a US Marine, it is an oath. And letting an innocent die because you didn't have the courage to do everything in your power including sacrificing your own life is a violation of that oath. We swear a vow to God before country and then the government. We have an obligation to ignore immoral and illegal orders. And a duty to sacrifice our lives for those of our fellow man be they fellow Marines or innocents of any race, creed, or nationality.

Fair enough. Wouldn't you agree that there are better options if you want to help people rather than joining the military, though? Especially with the current economy? There are enough volunteers. If you don't join the army to do those humanitarian services, that just means there's one more spot to fill, and they will fill it. I would say that you make a bigger difference if you help the world without taking a spot that someone else would take anyway, if that makes sense.

As for the obligation to ignore immoral orders, that's very nice, but those in charge are smart enough to make it sound like a moral order. Think Iraq. It seems better to me to stay away from authorities so you can pick the good fights yourself.

Also, no offence, but didn't you once say that you joined the military for free/cheap education or something like that, just to leave when you can't profit from those benefits anymore? Maybe I misunderstood. To be clear, I would call that a good choice.

I suppose I was wrong that money is the only legit and ethical reason to serve though. I suppose one could try to only have to do humanitarian services.

I'm genuinely curious about your opinion and arguments on this one. I'm not thinking black-and-white although it probably sounded a bit like that.

No, I had a congressional appointment to West Point and a congressional recommendation to New London (Coast Guard) but my physique (5'10" and 129 lbs) kept me out of West Point and my color blindness out of New London so I tried out for the President's Own program. I left when my 4 years were completed because I never intended on being a career Marine. And we wouldn't have "stop loss" happening if there were enough volunteers.

By the way RUFFHAUS, while they technically have a way to send someone straight to OCS, I is so rare that it may as well be non-existent. Most officers I knew when I served were Navy officers. A few (namely the base Colonel in Little Creek) were enlisted who went through OCS. I'll have to ask Colonel Eloy Campos how he went about getting his commission.

YCHTT,
I congratulated you on your pride earlier, but now you're going a little over the top about the marines. Just like all of them, think they're tougher, have more discipline, patriotism and never hesitate to tell everybody else that. Bottom line is, Marines are pumped full of pride because that's what it takes to charge into battle. It is why every Marine blabs about how much tougher than all the other services, it's because they're supposed to think so, in order that they risk their life on the battlefield! You, my friend, are by design.

Get the news, YCHTT, all of the services are highly trained and essential. While you carry around a rifle in the woods, some Air Force guy is responsible for billion dollar equipment. You could use a little perspective. Also, your buddy in A.F. basic is probably in R.O.T.C. Nobody gets weekend (or day) passes in basic training. Check your facts before you spread them.

Raru - I agree. Every service has it's place. Hell, my first choice was Coast Guard (part of the Dept of Transportation) flying search and rescue. But that wasn't to be thanks to shitty color vision. And that actually helps the argument that the ser if isn't just about fighting in wars. Reducing the US Military and other peace keeping forces down to simply "killers with a license to kill" does a great disservice to all armed forces and peace keeping forces around the world. Marines are the first to land and the last to leave, but without tactical support we'd all have left in body bags.

Sorry... Raro. I've been misreading that. My apologies.

Sorry, man, but you're just wrong. It is not rare at all. the scenario you have described is what is rare. Some (not most) officers come from Annapolis, as in the US Naval Academy, not the Navy. One does not serve int he Navy for 3 or four years and then go become a Marine. What technically not impossible, that's just not a common or practical arrangement. Most officers come through OCS from somewhere other than the Naval Academy, be that as exceptional leaders from the enlisted ranks or a theose recruited with four year college bachelor's degrees.

No offense to your past service, but you've got your facts wrong. Here (again) are the paths to a commission with the Marine Corps straight from the official Marine Corps website.

http://www.marines.com/becoming-a-marine/commissioning-programs

But let's get back to the larger point here. Does anyone here really want Sandgoose leading a platoon of trained killers?

I know the paths, but what are the percentages that follow each path. In my day, Marine Corps officers were often Annapolis grads who were selected to go to TBS or came from the enlisted ranks. Prior to WWI (admittedly a lot before my time) there *wasn't* a Marine Corps OCS.

As far as it being rare that a Naval officer serve time in the Navy before going to the Marine Corps, don't tell that to the current Commandant of the Marine Corps who started as a *Naval* aviator.

@YCHTT
I appreciate you saying so

If you want to know the percentages you go find them, mate. It's simple math really. An US Naval Academy average graduation class is about 1,000, which starts from a plebe class of 1,300. The class of 2014 was 1,068 graduating midshipmen. Of that number 265 went on to become Marine Corps officers.

I did not say that it never happened that officers came from one branches of service to the navy. I said that it was rare. The present Commandant of the Marine Corps would know it to be the truth. In fact the present Commandant of the Marine Corps did *not* come from the Navy. He came to the Marines via ROTC (you know where the R stands for reserve?), and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Marine Corps. That he was a naval aviator is a semantic distinction as the Marine Corps is part of the Navy, and the Navy takes on some Marine Corps pilots. However, General Amos never held the rank of ensign, nor any other naval rank, other than those associated with the Marines, because he was never in the Navy. He's a marine.

The context of this discussion was how one (Sandgoose) might become a reserve officer in the Marine Corps. The answers to this question are varied, but you stormed the beach, telling everyone that's not how it's done. The bottom line is that the Marines get their officers from a variety of sources, and very few of them come from "the Navy". A good number of them come from the US Naval Academy, but that differs entirely from what you suggested.

Graduated from Annapolis = coming from the Navy. It is the Naval Academy, not the Marine Corps academy. And considering there are maybe 20,000 Marine *officers* (200k Marines) at any given time, the Marines maybe bring on 2000 new Marines officers in a year.

Seeing as you haven't responded, here is my *proof* that Naval Academy midshipmen are in the Navy... The oath of office that every plebe recites on his induction day.

http://www.usnaflorida.com/oath-of-office.php

Oath of Office

“Having been appointed a Midshipman in the United States Navy,
do you solemnly swear (or affirm) that you will support and defend
the constitution of the United States
against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;
that you take this obligation freely,
without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion;
and that you will well and faithfully discharge the duties
of the office on which you are about to enter,
so help you God?"


It states right there that they are Midshipmen in the United States Navy (not the Marines). So attending Annapolis *is* being a sailor in the US Navy.

Dude, you've been horribly wrong on damn near everything in this thread. How many times do you need to be clubbed with it? Are you really going to resort to the semantics now? I'm fully aware that the Navy Academy is the Navy. That's not the point, even though you suggested a clear distinction that Marine Officers came from the Navy - other than Annapolis. You also implied rather strenuously that most Marine Corps Officers came from the Navy. That's simply not the case. Your own posted statistics refute this. If the Marines bring in 2,000 new officers a year, Annapolis provides just over 10% of them (265 in the last graduating class. That leaves another 1,735 prospective officers that come from somewhere other than the Navy.

Nice attempt to cover all of your inaccuracies though. The reality is that you do not know shit about the Marine Corps Officer Candidate School and pretended to be an expert on it, even going so far as to trying to name drop the Commandant on us - and then botching that whole story line. Do you need me to keep stomping you on this or are you going to shut up, and stop making yourself look silly?

Yeah, I don't know shit about Marine OCS. I'll admit it. But, I do believe that I did at least catch your fallacy when you claimed cadets at Annapolis weren't in the Navy. They are in the Navy just as much as a recruit in bootcamp at Parris Island is in the
Marines. He may not be a Marine just yet, and the Midshipman may not be a NavalOfficer just yet, but one is in the Marines and one is in the Navy.