The English attack on Finland occurring in Spring02, typically.

Any German moving to Baltic in 01 doesn't know how to play, if he wants to attack Russia, keeping Russia out of Sweden while moving to Denmark means you get a build no matter what happens in Sweden. And if you move to Baltic, you're just inviting the English into Denmark.

The reason moving to Gulf of Bothnia is th superior movie is if Germany bounces you out of Sweden, you can than move to the Baltic in S01, meanwhile if Germany doesn't bounce you, whether you moved into Sweden from GoB or Finland bares no effect on how the rest of the game plays out.

Those are assertive words fasces, but I can see many good reasons a Germany moves to bal s01. I also think the move to fin is a strong signal of peace to Germany. Lastly, maple's point appears quite valid.

Maples assumption is that both Germany and England will be going after Russia.

Rarely is that the case. You're right that it can send a message to Germany of the intention of peace, but I think most German players decide whether to bounce in Sweden based on who's allied with who in the south and what England's plans are, as well as his relationship to England.

Germany will often give Russia Sweden to make it harder for England to take all of Scandinavia. Germany will also give Russia Sweden if Austria and Turkey are working together against Russia, cause he'll want Russia to live for as long as possible so that Austria-Turkey don't eliminate Russia before he's eliminated France or England.

Normally, at least when I play Germany, the rest of the units on the board matter a lot more then the Russian fleet, when I'm deciding whether or not to bounce it.

You don't think Germany and England make reasonable allies?

And what makes the s01 move to Baltic so terrible in your mind? The ability to be there in s02 while claiming den with an army does truly seem disadvantaged doesn't it?

Whats France doing this whole time Jimbo?

faces, you should really play a few more games before you trumpet yourself so. Mapleleaf has an excellent point to be made that' you're dismissing out of hand without any real basis of significant experience to back it up. You're making some rather silly assumptions as well. Your view of the game is incredible myopic. The very essence of Mapleleaf's Finland opening is one that gives England serious reason to reconsider a Russian invasion. That's the point of the move. It poffers Russia tangible diplomatic leverage with England (and Germany). Furthermore a German move to Baltic Sea is extremely powerful, but it takes more than a dot-grabber to realize that. Baltic Sea is one of the most powerful spaces on the map. And finally your reference to Jimbo about France is coated is smarmy glee, simply because you assume that France is attacking Germany. Apparently you've never seen a western triple alliance. Try playing Russia your way and get back to us on how it works out.

I have played Russia my way and have never seen Germany open with Baltic.

The triple alliance isn't all powerful, most triple alliances result in games with a 6-way draw.

Austria, Russia and Italy/Turkey generally counter with a 3-way alliance of their own, and the map filled with stalemate lines leads to a game where you have 6 powers all of which know that if they throw the game to the other alliance it will end in a 3-way draw, and because you have 2 allies not one, it becomes much harder to stab.

I think we can all agree, without any reference to merit, that Germany typically orders F Kie-Den or Hol.

Germany opening to the Baltic is certainly rare. But the move to Finland not so rare. It all depends on what is happening or expected to happen all around you. The only thing I have a big problem with in this discussion so far:

"Maples assumption is that both Germany and England will be going after Russia.
Rarely is that the case."

Huh?
Germany and England Rarely go after Russia?
In no way would I say this is a rarity!

Not a rarity, but uncommon enough in my experience.

That said, if Russia is certain of a G/E, than Finland would be practical. The problem is that most competent players would not reveal their hand like that so quickly.