Messages - vDiplomacy

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26 Apr 15 UTC	Spring, 5: Swag
26 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: So whos up for uniting against Greece before he wins this way too easily?
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: Eh, I'm trying to help the meek. I attacked Persia to defend Egypt and Rome to help Carthage. Someone has to do the right thing, even if it implies a bit of deceit.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: You attacked me cause you saw my superior tactical skills overcoming Egypt. You had/have no intention of defending Egypt, in fact, you suggested to attack him while you supposedly moved against Rome. Now with me tied up with Egypt you're moving in. What nobody else seems to realize is that instead of me just taking out Egypt Greece is now going to take both mine and Egypts sc. If you guys leave him alone thats whats gonna happen. He's already moving units west so you better decide fast.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: If at least the African realms would not have been bouncing heads since day one and ignoring the most natural threats and naval defense! But what could I do (after mediation, advise and even threats failed)? Get even more the middle of all by taking Cyrene and Leptis? That would have been suicidal. But anyhow, just look at the map, Seleucus and Ptolemy: it is even worse than I expected! The whole Carthaginian navy has been sunk and only two errant armies survive, barely so. Delenda est Carthago! And nobody, save the Roman, can like that. Rome grows +3 and only because I'm rushing to scratch a backyard center from him, else it would be +4. And where all those new armies and fleets would have head to right away, along with all the other veteran units from the Punic Blitz? To Greece and the East. Just count the dots: at the end of the year it'll be approx. Rome 13, Greece 11. Greece is the one defending and Rome is the one who threatens to win way too easily.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: Seleucus: I had all the intention to help Egypt and Carthage since day one but was quite unlucky in that effort (because, I guess, both players are not familiar with the variant and hence made poor choices). I advised them not to bounce heads over Leptis, to watch their natural enemies to the north, to Carthage particularly to go naval and not leave Punic Sea and Sardinia open to Rome, I even recently threatened Carthage (empty threat) in order to help Egypt survive. Did I lie to you and Rome: punctually yes, when you're planning a stab you have to do that kind of things. And why to stab? Because you get the kind of advantage that maybe allows you to win a close-call war, instead of losing it. But I was never really serious about going to Africa, except once when I thought that maybe that way I could forcibly separate the two African contenders. For Greece going African (beyond the odd random dot maybe) is illogical, as it makes itself weaker, not stronger, by getting surrounded by enemies even more than at the start.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: I would say your by far the most experience player here Greece,I think aside from you most of us have had minimal communication between our not immediate neighbors. For the record though I had extended to Greece the offer of a draw. This should be interesting regardless but we can all learn from this. Now kill the Graccus scum!!
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: Greece has manipulated us all. He's made himself look like a friend to everyone while at the same time finding any excuse to stab us. I'm willing to stop moving against Egypt in order to prevent the spread of Greece.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: Love the self-righteousness of the discourses: Caesar said: "I had extended to Greece the offer of a draw". Not quite. He offered me to keep the conflict to the South, implying he'd go for Egypt after Carthage and that the conflict would be a rush for centers. But I thought it was just pretty words diplomats use. It's the name of the game. I replied in kind, of course. Seleucus said: "Greece has manipulated us all". Not really: I have never really "manipulated" the Africans, whose interests I considered always symbiotic with those of Greece. Sure, when Persia and Rome both offered peace and suggested me to go against Rome and Persia respectively, I agreed with both and bid my time. Then, as I saw Egypt in deep trouble, I took the decision to honor one treaty and breach the other. And now, as I saw Carthage in deep trouble I decided I had to intervene, the sooner the better (already too late anyhow), even if that slows down somewhat the progress against Persia and probably gives more centers to Egypt. But what else? Believe Rome's nice words about keeping the treaty beyond the expiration of its practical effect on his side? And Persia? He didn't even offer nice words, not even a carrot worth chewing on, he just wanted to imagine he had persuaded me to go against Rome while he grabbed all Egypt easily. But anyhow this is a very good situation for Egypt because he potentially holds the leverage and can play both sides to his best interest... once that Persia is gone, of course. But I'm OK with that: I believe in balance of power and that's exactly what motivated me all the time.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: And please look at the statistics of the variant: 1. Rome: 40 solos, 4.15 performance score 2. Carthage: 36 solos, 3.85 perf. 3. Persia: 32 solos, 3.76 perf. 4. Egypt: 20 solos, 2.76 perf. 5. Greece: 14 solos, 2.4 perf. Greece wins only 1/3 of the times Rome does, Egypt 1/2. The only Eastern power more or less equal to the Western ones is Persia. So I'm fighting against all odds. It's not the first time I play Greece on this board (my bad luck) so I know that winning is near-impossible. I was not too happy of getting Greece as you can imagine. But, well, let's try it once again.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: Woah woah woah. I may not have played 100 games on this map, but I know my way around it. I knew that pan-Africanism was a good way to go, but after several unanswered messages to Egypt, what was I to do? Abandon all defense there and let him overrun me because it should theoretically have worked out better!?
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: "Nice words"? "Carrot"? Uh, how about the offer of not having to worry about a neighbour attacking you? I'd say thats the most valuable thing in this game. Yes of course I would have taken Egypt since I invested all efforts southeast... exactly what I said I was doing... instead of plotting to stab you. Sure Egypt can continue fighting me but he won't gather enough sc to hold you off. You can toss out stats all you want but the only one with the upper hand here is you.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: And I would like to point out that I actually did expect to honor our treaty... note the total lack of defenses or aggressive moves on my part. And you do have more SC's on your side, if you hadn't turned my way you would have gotten to 18 before me.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: @Seleucus: "Uh, how about the offer of not having to worry about a neighbour attacking you? I'd say thats the most valuable thing in this game". Not when you are left with nowhere to go. Every aspiring power has expansionist needs that must be met. You wishfully thought those I'd solve in the West but I understood that, if I did that, Egypt would have collapsed and Persia would then go against me. "Egypt can continue fighting me but he won't gather enough sc to hold you off". If Egypt thinks, as you'd like him to do, that I'm his biggest problem, then Egypt is wrong and Rome wins. As simple as that. Right now the only logical way for Egypt to go is to keep neutral in the G-R war, make sure that Persia is finished and then re-evaluate according to the power balance situation of the moment. I'm being extremely unbiased: I'm not saying he should remain allied to Greece beyond the Persian collapse, that depends on who is winning in the G-R conflict. If Rome is winning, he should ally with Greece, and, in the unlikely case that Greece is winning he should ally with Rome. But first he must secure three Persian dots and Leptis and become a true contender that way. I'm being as extremely honest with Egypt as to advise him to build some fleets rather than all armies, as he seems to prefer, even if that can eventually turn against me. Go figure!
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: "Unbiased" yet everything you say/suggest is in your greatest interest. So long as Egypt keeps me busy you've secured the east for yourself your entire plan relies on that fact. Once I'm gone its too late to "re evaluate" the power situation as you'd already be at his doorsteps. Nobody has any reason to trust in anything you say you've made sure of that one yourself, and if he actually believes you then he can't say I didn't warn him.
27 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: We all think in our interest. It just happens that my interest is similar to that of the African players and not so much to that of Rome or Persia. Geography sets the rules. It's not about "keeping you busy", Seleucus: it's about getting rid of you altogether, because you can only work in favor of Rome and because I need my hands free to face the Roman challenge. Egypt surely also wants his hands and rearguard free for whatever he decides to do. Even if he decides to attack me, he wants a decent Asian platform and more troops.
30 Apr 15 UTC	Autumn, 5: In order to get rid of me you needed my focus elsewhere otherwise you wouldn't have a chance.
16 May 15 UTC	Oops! Check mate guys.
16 May 15 UTC	I told Egypt...
16 May 15 UTC	Least I tried too