I actually agree with Obama's strategy here. Something must be done, but he must be very cautious not to unite the extremists with the mediocrity against aNOTHER U.S. invasion.

I'd also add to your post the state of Israel, which needs to be stopped and has killed as many innocent people as ISIS.

As for Israel, then quit firing rockets into Israel, Israel pulls out the grounds troops out of Gaza and what does Hamas do, fire more rockets, what should Israel do, just take it.
Another thing, if you don't want civilians killed don't put rockets in UN schools, churches, mosques or hospitals. The civilians killed in Gaza is directly due to Hamas. I guarantee you if Mexico was firing rockets into San Diego, what do you think the US would do. Even Barry would have to end it, any way possible.

Israel must be stopped? And what are they to do about daily missile attacks, what are they to do about the terrorist tunnels? And they WARN people before they attack, because people want to be martyrs we should accuse Israel of attacking innocent people? No, get your facts straight before claiming Israel is in the wrong. If ANY other country were attacked (daily) from another, you would have zero problem with them defending themselves and hammering the attacker, why is it so different here? If Cuba launched missiles into Florida what would you expect the USA to do? Should they sit back and accept it or would the US absolutely LEVEL Cuba? Now how is it so different here?

This is turning into webDip...

we are not allowed to discuss current events?

I would not accept the US levelling Cuba, Israel levelling Palestine, Palestine levelling Israel. "Levelling" is obscene. Hamas are not levelling Israel, afaik they have killed a total of 3 Israeli civilians.

And wars are only ok if both sides have equal casualties?
Tell us what Israel is supposed to do?

Hamas rockets are fired from civilian areas and Israel targets the source...
I don't see an alternative.

Synapse, they have only killed three civilians in THIS war.

The alternative is to not kill 1000 civilians, I don't care about their motives or principles

And let Hamas rain rockets down for the next 1000 years?
That is not a solution.

You can stop the rockets without killing a thousand civilians. I am not a security expert but of that I'm sure.

Stop presenting a false choice between murder and inaction.

Not only is it rockets, Hamas is building tunnels from civilian's houses...

Until the average Palestinian decides that enough is enough and that Hamas does not have their best interest in line, Israel does not have a choice.

And as you said, you are NOT a security expert

They've got loads of choices.
1. Diplomacy with Hamas
2. Assassinations
3. Alliances with other Islamic states
4. Dispersal of sleeping gas followed by arrests
5. Ground invasion, go from house to house removing weapons
6. Improve defense capabilities to nullify the threat
etc. etc.

If you honestly believe there are no choices in international relations, you're exactly what the propaganda merchants are looking for.

Neither are you. So why do you believe that Israel has no choices but to kill 1000 civilians?

In this type of war where Hamas purposely uses civilians as shields, yes, I truly believe that Israel has no choice.

Well, you're wrong. I'm not a security expert but I've been to combat zones and I fully understand Islamic culture (which does not condone Hamas by the way). But what do you expect them to do when 400 children have been killed in the last month, pack up their rocket launchers and go home?

Netanyahu is determined to oppose a two-state solution because he claims that his nation is under threat, any defense analyst worth his salt can tell you that Palestine does not pose any threat to the state of Israel or its citizens. It is also a fact that the coalition in Israel is desperate to cultivate anti-Hamas sentiment for political reasons.

Yes, Hamas aren't helping. Yes, I wish they'd do like Ghandi and use nonviolence to embarrass the Israeli's internationally. None of this condones strikes on hospitals, schools and shelters which have been condemned by both the UN and the international community, including the U.S.A. There is virtually nobody outside of Israel who thinks that the response upon schools and hospitals has been appropriate and the fact is that no evidence has been produced of rockets or terrorist operating from the aforementioned sites.

Also, I repeat the part about the children. What if your child got killed because a terrorist was nearby? Or what if your child was taken hostage in a bank robbery, and the cops blew your child up with grenades? Would you feel that was acceptable to kill the robber? Or would you feel like I do that the response needs to be measured and collateral damage isn't acceptable?

Back to topic a second:

"Listen, and understand! That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It does not feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop , ever, until you are dead"

This does not describe Hamas or ISIS, they are not robots. Hamas and ISIS are groups of human beings in a certain political climate, they are genetically no different to you or I and we have already seen that their atrocities are possible in civilized western nations including the U.S, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, Nazi Germany, Yugoslavia, Russia.... Part of the problem is that a lot of people can't comprehend why Iraqi's would suddenly start a "Islamic state" and kill loads of people---without understanding the oppression that the Shia had conducted upon them for many years.

I laugh at those supposed options Israel has. Also laughable is saying israel is in no threat. Rockets raining down daily is no threat? So they simply wait until the casualties mount to x number before retaliation?

Rockets aren't raining down daily.

synapse,
No rockets are reigning down daily when they are not at war, when they are war yes and usually starts reigning down that prompts a war, Israel has to respond. But.........here is the thing, when the rockets aren't reigning down Hamas is still building tunnels to Israel, why? The are re-arming rockets from Iran, why? Why are they using money that is supposed to be spent on infrastructure on finding ways to terrorize Israel? And if the care so much about their citizens why are they using them as human shields?
You said that you don't think Hamas is the definition I characterized them to be, but what negotiations did the 50,000 people have with ISIS? There is none and ISIS want you dead, end of story. If this is not true then why doesn't Hamas take out of their charter that Israel doesn't have the right to exist. They without a doubt would kill every single Jewish person if they could. Remember how this latest incident started, with the kidnapping, torture and dismemberment of three Israeli KIDS.
They are the very essence of what I described them to be.
They are very different from me, I would not make it a point to kill children, they make it a point, just like ISIS beheading children, have you seen the USA or Israel doing that, show me, but we know these terrorist groups do it, hell they put it on TV or the internet. If you can't see the difference between us and them, you are lost, sir.

ISIS don't want me dead, I've been to Iraqi Kurdistan before, among other places.
I've seen a lot of ISIS atrocities but I've not seen children beheaded.
Yes, USA did that against the native Indians and they also killed millions in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Israel has also killed 1000 civilians including 400 children in the past month. They also have a photographed and documented history of using human shields, including children.

Who are "us" and "them"? Whites vs Muslims?
If you can't see the similarities between "us" and "them", you will never find the answer to peace. What about the atrocities in Yugoslavia and Germany that I mentioned before, or the Bolshevik's murders?

You would kill people if you were in the right situation, to say you wouldn't is naive at best and dangerous at worst.

Yes mistakes where made in the past with the Indians, I would like to keep this current. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Dresden, yes to end wars. If that is what you are promoting, then under these conditions where it is an all out war and not limited then Israel should use every military resource at their disposal to end this for once and all, correct?
Again the difference, which you won't address, is Israel hits children because they are hitting stockpiles of ammunitions hidden where children are, or it is an accident, Hamas PURPOSELY targets children, HUGE difference. Please tell me you understand that.
BTW, Synapse, if you are not muslim and won't join them, you would be hanged. You said you were there, test it next time you are in Kurdistan, better yet, if you are so confident, take your family and see how it goes. I sure as hell wouldn't.

Us and them, terrorists---------non-terrorists. And the different there is who is using terror to achieve their objectives.

Are you saying Israel is using human shields? is so, where and when, if documented should be easy to find.

So here's the crux of your argument whether you like it or not:

When "we" kill millions it is necessary
When "they" kill thousands they are evil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#Israel

Hamas doesn't target children, they've killed 3 adult civilians and about 60 combatant soldiers.

You obviously know nothing about the regions or people you're talking about, as I have spoken with Jihadists and been treated with great hospitality by them including PPK "terrorists" who gave me a place to stay and delicious soup to eat. I demonstrated understanding willingness to learn and they appreciated it. You clearly think that the Islamic terrorist groups are inhuman beasts, which is where our debate falls down because you are basing this on prejudiced and generalised opinions.

Israel is hitting schools and hospitals where there has been no evidence of rockets or terrorists. The UN and even the US have acknowledged this and decreed it as war crimes.

"The IDF admitted it had used Palestinians as human shields; it acknowledged using human shields 1,200 times during the Second Intifada"

Again, I charge that Israel is guilty of perhaps more war crimes than Hamas. Firing rockets isn't an atrocity if they land on empty ground or are shot down as 95% are. However bombing children even if they are being used as shields is a war crime, as Israel have taken no steps to minimalise casualities.

Which country are you from? Because I'd charge the US with terrorism as well in Panama, Cuba, Nicaragua and other places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._United_States

I guess we could continue this debate forever, but I'll leave you with this:

http://alwaysquestionauthority.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/10350407_703826676358487_9015294458968002859_n.png?w=584

USA!
Nicaragua, Cuba, what are you talking about? Panama?

Really, rockets being fired into a country is not an atrocity, only because they were intercepted because of the new Iron Dome, so if Israel doesn't use their Iron Dome then it is an atrocity, really, cmon. Do you think Hamas would stop rocketing them or increase if they can do real damage, like they don't blow up buses.

I am going to tell you now you are out of touch if you believe Israel hasn't taken steps to minimize casualities. The are warning civilians they are coming in so get out, does Hamas do that with their rocket launches, look out Tel Aviv we are going to rocket your area, I haven't seen it yet.
I am checking your references on the human shields, not going to quite take your word for it or the reference, might be CNN, know how reliable they are.