+1

+1

Whores of VDip? Yo gusto!

Great idea, but without Oli really about or anyone able to step up and assist with the code I fear it won't happen.

At least the thought is out there, and our amigos from the Spanish site have the functional code. GOD suggested a thread for this, and so it was written.

Bravo .This feature would allow the game to be played properly.

I'd like to add something related to this:
a unisono vote option to change the duration of phases while the game is running (similar to extend/pause votes), or a game creation pre-set to change the pace after X turns.

reasoning:
as a game evolves, there may be a need for 3-days-phase in the beginning with lots and lots of talking and planning ... but in end game, those 3 days can be a real real drag, especially with people hanging around just saving but not finalized each and every retreat and build phase – be it to demonstrate their "power" or due to loss of interest.

I love this idea. Slightly related is when the only retreat option is to destroy a unit it should hapen automatically. It sucks to wait for an entire phase for someone that is no longer interested in playing to destroy their unit.

I started dev'ing for webdip a couple weeks back, already have a few changes live on the site. I'd love to help vdip out as well. This sounds like an interesting challenge.

y2kjbk, make sure mods know of your offer. It seems help may be needed. And touch base with Ambassador, I know he's been trying to get some things going.

That'd be great y2kjbk. I'll add to Doc's recommendation and say get in touch with the mods and depending on how that goes PM Oli.

"when the only retreat option is to destroy a unit it should hapen automatically. It sucks to wait for an entire phase for someone that is no longer interested in playing to destroy their unit."

Well said, BrettJ72. It is precisely these scenarios that punctuate the need for such a feature. There have been games here run on a gentleman's agreement to ready up such orders, but all too often the we see players abusing the schedule to punish in game actions.

"especially with people hanging around just saving but not finalized each and every retreat and build phase – be it to demonstrate their "power" or due to loss of interest."

Also well said, Hirnsaege. This option might be made possible through the process of a moderated game. However, I would think that the vote would need to be unanimous to shorten or lengthen movement phases though. Maybe that's what you're suggesting by "unisono"?


I like this idea because there has been some recent interest in finding games with longer phases, but such games are very cumbersome from past experience. Longer phase for movements interests me very much, but the ideal of three and four day retreat and adjustment phases is entirely unappealing, particularly if you see behavior such as noted/quoted above. Yet if the movement phases could be extended while keeping retreats and adjustments to a lesser duration, we might begin to see an increase in the quality of press, and the creativity of orders. It would also allow for solo victories to become a far more challenging achievement.

Would be interesting if we remove the "Save"-Button for the retreat/disband/build-phases. Just "Ready" (or miss).

Oli, just as a discussion point, I like to use the "SAVE" button for capturing my orders entered, and then verifying on the map that the system has them recorded accurately before marking "READY". I typically only do this with movement turns, but it's also a good safeguard against building incorrect unit types.

i think that would be unnecessarily confusing, just optionally altering the phase length for retreats/builds should be sufficient to get what's desired here.

Yeah, was just thinking loud..
Points taken... Not so good of an idea.. :-)

In principle I agree the build and retreat phase needs addressing. However dealing with international time zones etc shortening these between phases becomes problematic. I often get hassled regarding save and ready but work odd hours. I join games that are 24-36 hours for the most part as the phase end is not a fixed moment in time. If the retreat/build for these game was even 12hours I fear many people would miss the phase.

I would 1/2 the time I'd guess!

Please be very careful of implementing this idea while it sounds good on the surface it will cause as much trouble as NMR and CD's. Games will be spolit and the opposite effect would be achived.

Make it half the move like in the boatdgame, but have it optional and then people can choose if they want traditional PHP Dip phases or classic boatdgame phases.

Boardgame phone autocorrect ed to the other. WTF?

My thought was to default to the current situation and leave an option in advanced settings to reduce the retreat/build phase time length to any value less than the main phase length.

Oli's Ready only button would not 9nly he confusing, but dangerous. How does the last person save then think about things, change, and save again? The last person would have to know exactly what they wanted or the game would progress without them having a chance to reconsider.

@Fagnaur - so what? Scatter-brained mind-changers deserve to get duly eradicated, NOT have rules catered to them.

Here's a feature I'd love to see: you don't see an unread messages tab for games you've been eliminated from, except when its the end of the game. I got whacked early in a game that's been going on forever and it shits me that I keep being reminded of the game whenever someone posts in global. Food for thought.

If you (by your own account) deserve to be eradicated, why on earth do you still exist and bother this productI've thread, mapleleaf?

*productive

+1 amby!

I actually think that Oli''s idea is very good, for strider has a valid point. @YCHTT, I understand that you want to check your orders, but usually you have only 1-3 retreats/builds...I think it's possible to check those before hitting ready? The system doesn't change them to wrong orders if you have put in the right ones. And typically the people who hold up a game in such a situation save theit orders and then wait. This would be avoided!

I'm holding on a build right now because of the holiday weekend (Labor Day in the US). My orders are submitted, but not finalized.

If you have 5 minutes (boardgame) or 1 day, you have the full 15 minutes or 1 day and shouldn't be forced to take a shorter time, especially if the thought is to make retreats and builds a shorter time period to match the board game. Sometimes a person just needs to have the extra time to avoid an overly hectic schedule. Saying they are stalling the game is bull. You signed up for a phase length or set of phase lengths. Live with it. The only time I think the player shouldn't be allowed is if they must disband and have zero SCs left. Then the disband orders should he in, readied, and the button disabled. But that is entirely different from what we are discussing.

If we are to match the boardgame, though, we should disable chat during retreats and builds. They can't be discussed according to the rules. And the best there would be to disable it for those who have orders (sending or receiving chat) and allow global banter to continue.

Oh, and you could have a whole lot more builds in a build anywhere scenario or just a scenario where you start with more than the usual 3-4 SCs.

Removing the "Save"-Button for the retreat/disband/build-phases is a terrible idea !

Like YCHTT wrote it, you have sometimes many Builds or Retreats. In large Variants, I have seen several times players with 10 Builds or more ! In such a case, it is very much appreciated to see the preview map ! It is also very much appreciated to be able to change one's mind.
Like RUFFHAUS 8 wrote it, seeing the preview map also allows to verify that the system has recorded accurately your orders and it is also a good safeguard against building incorrect unit types.

Another problem with a "Ready only button" is the fact that if you are the last player to submit your orders, then you have no choice but to Ready your orders, which makes the Phase happen, or to NOT enter any order if you need the time for whatever reason (for example, you need time IRL and don't want to speed up the game). And if a player is prevented to enter and Save his orders when he can, that will also rise the risk of an NMR !

Some of us a very busy IRL and the possibilty to use the full Phase time is sometimes very much appreciated.

Regarding the question of disabling the chat during Retreats and Builds Phases, there is no point in trying to "match the boardgame" that does not allow to discuss during Retreats nor Builds Phase.

Indeed, when you play the boardgame, you are physically at the same place and at the same time than all the other players. As a consequece, players have all the time they need for their negotiations.
On the contrary, this is an online play. Not everybody has 24 hours internet. Not everybody has "everywhere internet". And so, if the Phase is 24 hours, for example, we sometimes need the extra negotiation time during the Retreats or Builds Phase, especially with players all around the world that live in all those different time zones.
If it was prohibited here to negotiate during the Retreats and the Builds Phase, the consequence would naturally be that players would create games with longer Phases !

Finally, the idea of disabling chat during Retreats and Builds Phases only for the players who have orders is terribly unfair because then, during those Phases, only the other players would have the possibility to negotiate their actions for the next turn !

I am not in favor of disabling chat features during retreats and adjustment phases. I raised the point of press during these phases in noting a preference to offer a reduced time duration for them because there is not meant to be press for submission of these orders. Any negotiations about retreats and builds/disbands is supposed to occur during regular conversations. Retreats and adjustments are meant to occur immediately so that the time allotted for the game can be spent on the game. In the online Dip communities the 24 hour period has become the consensus equivalent to immediate for the very reasons described. Most players cannot be online 24 hours a day.

It would be nice if players could rise above childish time wasting stunts and ready up orders, specifically retreats and or adjustments, and some games are formed with players agreeing to do this in advance as a general courtesy. There are always exceptions of course.

A typical 2 day/phase game takes 10 days to play one full year. If you offered a 1 day/retreat and 1 day/adjustment phase option you can get this down to 7 days, with over the course of a 15 year game is 45 days, roughly a month and a half. That's a lot of saved time. Alternately you could allow for 3 days/movement phase and still see one game year take only 9 days.

I am suggesting this option because retreats and adjustments take far less time to consider and enter into the system *and* because the game of Diplomacy is specifically designed not to allow for negotiation for these phases. The intent is to force rapid decisions, and to involve/improve the long range planning in the ongoing diplomacy. I also suggest it because there are many players a VDiplomacy who use the retreat and adjustment phase as a revenge weapon and time wasting mechanism to voice their dissatisfaction with events in the game.

+1 RUFFHAUS

I was just spit balling ideas with regards to chat limits. The opposing views presented make a lot of sense so I withdraw the thought entirely. Let chat remain as it is presently. But I am still very much for reducing the phase length in retreats and adjustments.

Got another feature request suggestion: when you go into your own profile which afte your stats lists games you've played in, it'd be great if the Search options let you filter based on players.

Eg lets say I'm playing a non-anonymous game and some players I know I've played in the past but can't recall the game. It'd be great to see how they interacted with you (moves, messages etc) to help inform your game play on likelihood they'll be true to their word/stab you again.

Just putting it out there for thoughts seeing Spectate got implemented and some coding appears to be happening.