I really like it!!!
Only thing that i do not support is replacing the orders in the drop down menu with the symbols...

@steephie it looks quite different on a pc :)

Hirnsaege, that version you posted is way too big, bloated, and throws too much information at you. It's overwhelming.

KISS (keep it simple, stupid)

I do like it but I am not sure if the art is needed in the background. It is a little distracting and the space could be used to better effect by spreading out all the other stuff.

Great job and I love the zoom.

Well at the very least I love the blowup when you hover over the map. Though I'd prefer having it as an option you can turn off, which should be easy though css.

@steephie22: thanks for the feedback: what device/browser are you using to look at it? maybe it's just a small thing to change to make it work.

@GOD: that's why i put it in – to discuss it's advantages and disadvantages.

@Chaga: so as i effectively reduced text and information from the original one and ordered elements belonging together, the old one is even more overwhelming? there's almost no new information added but left out some i thought it was double or not useful.
you are right though that i used a wider standard column for desktop computers where width is plenty but height is not – from my experience this reduces the ubiquteous scrolling up and down between sections a lot when working with the map, entering orders or chatting with partners. it's still there, but less tedious (and one can hide sections not currently needed to shorten ways).

@bluecthulhu: i just reduced the contrast of the background, maybe you want to reload the page with CRTL+R (or CMD+R on a mac).
initially i added it as the old layout has one too (a less complex one) and i did not want to change the whole athmosphere additionally to the re-organization, but you are right that it is distracting.
spreading the information even wider is possible of course, but it would pull things apart depending on screen sizes. i chose the 1200 width as this is minimal standard for almost all desktop and laptop screens today.

@jmo1121109: i put it in to test it – i'm not sure if i like it or not myself. there is another variant of this that can be seen here:
http://www.elevateweb.co.uk/image-zoom/examples#inner-zoom
(the inner zoom example) that could be done too. so you have no "magifying glass" to look, but the map itself zooms. i will give that a try again, maybe that's better.

I'll go through it a bit more detailed.

First, the width - it's too wide. If you brought it in on both sides by about 10% I would like it a lot more.

Settings/status/your status
You have them as columns - I believe they would work much better as rows. Just a suggestion.

Same with the vote buttons. They were in a perfect location before, and in rows. I don't like the clumps you've made.

Chatbox is fine.

Please put the arrows for map movement under the map, or give that option (or on top of the map).

The move entering area is good.

Everything under the map is very nice.

on that map zoom thingie again: i almost always play with the small map only, but sometimes i just want to peek into the big one to see all support arrows that are not drawn on the small map, or have a closer look at the borders. opening the big map in an extra window means to switch back and forth which isn't really intuitive either ... therefor the expermiment with the in-page zoomable map.

BTW I love the zoom thing, but there should be a way to turn it off.

Yes, I reset and the contrast is better now.
I agree with Chaqa that the Settings/Status/your status/votes would look better as rows rather than columns. Other than that, it looks great.

@chaga: thanks for the more details.

width: i assume you are looking at it at a destop/laptop computer? just for the test, try to narrow the browser window as far as the layout switches. would that be better? the trade-in is added vertical length of the site, therefore more scrolling. the main content column first is not affected by this, only the sections navigation flags change from sideway-flag to header-bar style.
when narrowing further, things start to squeeze in (like map section buttons wander below the map as sideway there is no space left for them now). that's behaviour typical for adaptive layouts – on one device the space next to the map is free anyway and can be used for that, on the other it's not ...
usually users stay on their device, so they only see and get used to one layout ... it's not that they get confused by those changes by constantly changing window sizes like done when testing these things.

grouping/blocks: i agree the lines might be less "blocky". maybe though this is "adding up everything in row to look good in birds view" and creating text-soup. in that "soup" it is harder to find specific information you are looking for than in structured groups. i had the lines initially and changed to the blocks, but i will give it a try again tomorrow (now not changing structural things while others may have a look at the site). especially with the main menu on top you may be right. i think i disagree in the section about games settings/status/... but i have to see.

the votes: i have them in two lines for a good reason: first two are time-specific (extend, pause), the others are game specific (draw, concede, cancel). in the original layout, they are all mixed up.
when i started playing diplomacy, i wondered for a while how players gave votes ... i tried in the chat box like irc-commands ("/draw") ... but i would never have expect the buttons where they are placed now (to me those are status specific commands that belong to the "game" section, not orders ... others might see this different?

orders area: i thought this would be the most controverse part of them all :-)

If I wasn't clear, I want the whole website to be thinner - it is too wide to me at the moment. Maybe I'm just not used to it.

Suggestion for top menu - maybe have it hidden until needed? Like, you click a thing and it pops out.

Wow, that are some really interesting improvements. I hope, you will get access to the dev forum very soon, so it could be discussed over there and finally implemented.

To give you some feedback I will list my personal pros (+) and cons (-) for each section of your draft, similar to your explanations.

General:
+ I like the possibility to hide some sections. Especially on devices with small screens, this could be very useful.
- It really does not work on mobiles yet. I would not rearrange everything and reduce the width of some elements, but let the user zoom and scroll over the site in horizontal and vertical direction. I do not think, we can find interface which perfectly fits on a mobile device and is still only a smaller version of the original desktop interface.
+ unification

Header:
+ more links + grouped -> navigation on the site should become more easy and quick
- for me, it is a bit much text. Perhaps you should store the items in some dropdown lists for each subgroup, e.g. "Games" with "Open/Active", "Archive", ... as options, so you get a menu bar at the top of the site.This way we get more and grouped links but still have a very good overview over the different options.

"Games needing attention":
Nothing to add. I agree that all games would be too much, especially for players who are playing a lot of games.

Game - head:
+ regrouped information
- it seems to be a bit much here, too, but I do not have an idea, how reduce it. All information is important and should stay organized and not spread over the whole page as it is done in the current version.

Diplomacy/Chat:
+ better overview
+ chat log with lines to seperate messages, phases and more information like phase/turn
-I do not really understand the use of a mark unread button in this context.

Map:
++ I really, really like the "lens" even it means some work for me to get something like this compatible to the interactive map.
- Even if there is some space at the sideways I would not put the map at the left and the history buttons on the right. Perhaps I am only used to the old way, but for me it seems more comfortable to have a centralized map and buttons which affect a map, which directly above them and not somewhere on the left site.

Orders:
+ aligned in a table -> better overview
+ use of buttons instead of text in drop down lists but there have to be some tooltips to explain the order described by the buttons
+ order status symbols, but I would remove the blue symbol and use the red exclamation mark instead if the order is not changed. A tick seems like the order is completely ready (no action like saving etc has to be done). A player will notice that an order is not saved anyway, if he tries to save everything.
+ only max two drop down lists for each order which could be parallel opened
- short names. As short names often do not appear on the map, they could be a just confusing. The long names can be found directly on the map so the player knows which territory he selected. In addition short names would have to be implemented for each variant which means a lot of work.

player list:
+ clearly aligned in a table
- again a bit too much information for me. Perhaps the user should have the possibility to hide some columns or you could only show the most important information and show something minor important like points or bet in tooltip or something similar?

I don't have anything of specific substance to add, just wanted to say that I really like the general direction of these changes and applaud Hirnsaege for taking this on.

@chaga: i think we understand each other about the width – what i wanted to say in my last post was if it would be better the way it is presented currently if the browser window is narrower – the layout should change then to a width that is almost equal to the one that is used in the official layout now, so it is "thinner". in case things look different for you, i have made screenshots how it should display if things go right:
wide view for windows wider than 1280 pixels (site has 1200px width):
http://gestaltungssache.at/dip/wide.jpg

narrow view for windows less than 1280 pixels (site has 960px):
http://gestaltungssache.at/dip/narrow.jpg
(this could become changed to be the default if many agree of course!)

hiding things: currently, you can click on every element that is in the left column (the vdiplomacy logo, the game name, and the section flags) and the main content of that section will be hidden. so if you click on the logo, the menu will hide (this currently is a technical side effect of the dummy, behavior is threated all the same as scripting is limited to basics but could be improved of course).
i also like tobi1's suggestion of dropdown menus, i think they would be useful for the main menu indeed (these are in fact needed, but not very often, so they could be hidden by default).

@tobi1:
thanks a lot for the extensive feedback – many good ideas. i will create a copy of the current state to update and compare - this may take a few days again though.
i will reply to topics i have to comment, the rest consider to be "confirmed and agreed" :)

General > Mobile:
i agree that due to the games complexity i think we can not make it perfect for phones, but at least try to make it as usable as possible. i today quick-checked on ipad2s 1024x768 screen, and there it rendered "okay" and is usable on first sight (this can be simulated by making the desktop browsers window narrower, but currently when going below 768px there is a small bug). on smaller devices than that i agree that letting the user scroll horizontal and vertical and manually zoom might be the best solution for this game.

Header > text quantity:
i agree, and it adds up if there ever happen to be more subsection items ... i think chaga is right if he says this could be better represented in lines instead of columns, or as you say make dropdown submenus. they are there and fast enough accessible (additional +1 click), but do not take valuable vertical away space.

Game-head > information quantity:
i tried to make the text smaller etc. but it does not really help ... the information there is in fact usful, and finding it fast is important (so i think making lines instead of columns here does not work well, it's getting fuzzy fast). question is if the votes section is in the right place where it is ... to me this was the logical hierarchy belonging to the games status, but others may disagree.

Chat > Mark unread button:
the feature is in the original too below the chat text box ("mark as unread / reply later" button. to me, i use this feature very often if i read a message but don't have the time / muse to reply right now but i don't want to forget. the chat partner gets a "mail icon" again as if i had not read the message yet. Like the mute button, i'm not sure if this is the right place for them, but i have no better idea yet where they would belong. is it better on top of the chat log box, where the chat partner information is shown? it might be a "partners setting" after all (like we have the votes buttons in the games settings section).

Map > Lens:
i like the zoom function, but in fact i'm not sure about the "lens box" yet - to me it is too "flashy" and hyperactive this way. in the next version i will implement the other variant of this, where the whole smallmap area is the zoom area as long as there is mouseover on the map.
in general this is a feature that might cause headache in implementation ... it's difficult for touch devices to scroll over it (it could be done with doublefinger swipe, but not all users know that), and as you say, interactive map and this feature might heavily clash ... are you the developer of the interactive map?

Map > History buttons:
you may be right about the map history buttons ... it was a nice place and saved about 30 pixel of vertical space this way ... but i'm very used to seek those buttons below the map (question is if this is just habit or really better). currently they fall below the map and wrap into a single line the moment there is not enough space for them anymore sideway. but placing them sideways is rather problematic anyway considering other map sizes etc, so having them below by default can make things much easier for flexible layout.

Orders > icons:
i agree, tool tips are mandatory ... i'd also like to redesign the icons, i think with some thought they could be a little bit more clear to understand yet (they are also double-used for something different used within the dropdown for the via land/convoy differentiation and might be confusing this way).
i also agree that the blue tick is misleading, your explanation is perfectly logic. need to think about what's best hierarchy for this ... as said in page comments, i have not yet really thought about icons, just used the existing ones.

Orders > Short names:
i agree ... short capitalized names are very efficient in WWIV-games, but they are on the map too, so its logical to communicate using them. it's more difficult in other variants to generate ... i think we have to drop this in this form.

players list > information quantity:
i had first reduced the data, then added it again as i came to the conclusion that most of it in fact is important (to me) and i didn't want to do simplification by just leaving away 75% of everything (i hate those "virtual" (unasked for) redesign approaches by design students for big companies, that think they can do so much better, but in fact just cut away 90% of the information that should be transported from sender to receiver).
in the game specific info (left) i could do without the "to win" column that i added as a replacement to the graphical bar graphs* that show the current power. also, the bet/worth part is not really relevant to me.
the whole player section (the right part) somewhat tells me with whom i am dealing, a reliable pro, a newbie or a notoric flip-flopper that misses every third turn but keeps joining games like mad. we could hide the Pts and Reliablilty, but the "last seen" to me is rather important when playing and needed on first sight often.
besides that, i tried to get rid of as much text in this section as possible - tableheaders, numbers and icons can do their job quite well here, reducing clutter without reducing information.



*
@all: does anyone miss the horizontal colorful bars of the original layout that indicate the strength of each player compared to the others in a visual way? i left them out completely as to me they add so much clutter without real use(?)

Hirnsaege -

First off, I just want to thank you for taking on this project. Far too many of us lack the time or willpower (or knowledge of coding) to take on a task like this. It's nice to see someone step up and look to make improvements.

That said, I unfortunately have to say there's a lot that I feel is superior on the current format that on your improved map.

Starting from the top:
The main menu buttons: As is, with the buttons having the suboptions below them, this takes up far more space than the current format. As suggested before, dropdown submenus would greatly enhance this section. It would cut down on wasted vertical space, for the cost of only a single click.

Game-header: To me, this is another area of wasted space that doesn't give us any information we have now. Whereas you have everything listed in columns, the current format has everything neatly in rows. The current format has the game title listed large, with everything from you Settings column listed below or to the right. Half of your status column is listed there as well. I do not see the benefits of expanding everything as you have it. The other column, "your status" is listed immediately below those, again, with everything neatly put in a line. The only thing that might be an improvement, would be the vote buttons up top, but that might also just be confusing to people who are scrolling from the bottom (the players list) to see who's voted draw or pause, just to have to scroll all the way back up to vote. It's something to think about.

The diplomacy box: No real complaints here, although all the information you have there (name, centers/units, player name/points/reliability, and last seen) are already in the current format.

The map: To be perfectly honest, I strongly dislike the magnified view. There absolutely HAS to be a way to disable it, or only use it at certain times. Sometimes you need to zoom out in order to see where supports are coming from or going. It's not always so close together that you can see it in the zoomed view. Imagine a WWIV game where people are supporting from one end of the map to the other. It'd be very difficult to see all that in the zoomed view. Also, going along with others, I feel the buttons for changing the view on the map back and forward in the map should remain where they are. Intuitively, it just seems to make more sense that way.

Orders section: Looks solid. Just reiterating what others said, there needs to be explanations of the buttons for new people, or a differently designed button.

Players list: Again, seems like a waste of space to me. All the columns take up space, and doesn't give us any real important information that we do not already have. Country name, player name, points, reliability, and last seen are already there, just in a more condensed way. In addition, votes, status, units, bet, and worth are all there too. The only thing that's not is "to win", which could be useful (although I'd argue that people should be responsible enough to check the win condition on their own!). Perhaps that could just be added into the current format?

Overall: honestly, I feel the screen is too wide. Aesthetically it looks odd to me to see the left side pretty much wasted (do we really need those section titles (Orders, Diplomacy, the map, Players list and archives? I'd argue not.), and the right side wasted in the map section (assuming we move the buttons underneath), the orders section (is it necessary to be that wide? Was it to keep it all on one line? What if things are still too look (like those crazy long space names in WWIV?), and the players section (again, much more condensed as it stands now, and we don't lose much information, if anything). Maybe I'm just OCD, but I like things to line up nicely instead of seeing some sections wider than others, and those other ones have blank space.

Sorry if that seems harsh, but I figured we're all trying to help, so I'd give my feelings. It's truly awesome that you're taking this task up.

@drano:thanks for taking the time to feedback. that's not harsh but valuable.
i think as i have answered quite some of these above already i won't go into each specific feedback for now, but take it into full consideration for next iteration of the draft.


– of course we have most things that are shown already now in the current variant, but often they are currently placed and ordered in a way how features developed in time, not by things belonging logically together or apart. my initial intention was just to re-sort things, not to add new features (some proposals appened though). so my draft adds nothing explicitely new, but try to make existing more clear. if possible more compact (like the players list), if not possible by investing in little more space where i thought it's worth to try (like the game header to me).

– vote buttons on top: i initally was about to move the players list up above the chat box for the reason of keeping them together, but it seemed to be too much scrolling down to the map/orders to be worth it. they could be added to the own line of the players list maybe (but take much space there as text ... icons?)

– the map zoom: i agree it needs a disable option, and i also agree it's too distracting in the current form. i will try the other variant next, and if that's more useful (i think so) maybe go on with that (or drop it again). besides that, the option to open the map in a new window is still there and should stay there – the zoom was intended for quickly peeking into details, not get an overall perspective.

map buttons: this also depends on the maps sizes of each variant ... i kept the map size intact as otherwise this would mean redesigning variants, but used the space around it that was available. i'm absolutely for lining up things as neat as possible whereever it fits, but the map sizes just won't ever fit for each variant (they don't now too) ... centering might be the visually most appealing option available, and i am inclined myself to push the buttons below again, just wanted to see the feedback before doing so.

– width / section titles: we don't "need" them, and/or they could be horizontal separators like you see if you make the browser window smaller. i added them for the reason one needs an element to click on to collapse each section if not needed (a feature that might be only useful if it could be preset in personal settings of course) but didn't want them to waste vertical space on widescreens (much width, little height). this could be done without text too though, using only small arrow or +/– sqares in a corner of each section instead. i'm thinking about this. in general, besides those sections titles hanging out on the left column (the white space below adds visual structure), the real main content width is not dramatically different from the current live layout (i adjusted it to common good practice width of 960px that is a useful base width to work with in current webdesign). but i could easily live with readjusting to this widh as default if most people think it's better that way (it seems to be the case actually).

Thank you very much for your work, Hirnsaege ! I do realize that you have spent many hours on that !

I am sad to tell you respectfully that I do not like at all the result and that I prefer very much the current look that we have now on vdiplomacy. I find that what we use now is much more readable and much more beautiful.

Hi. I implemented the zoom in two webdiplomacy sites, and in the end the best solution for the players seemd to be a inner-zoom of the entire map, triggered by a click on the map or decided in the profile with a yes/no option.
here some details: http://forum.webdiplomacy.net/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=619&start=10
and in the first post you can also see a link to a working example!

Be aware, that some variants here at Vdiplomacy doesn't have the small map, so it's complicated to realize the zoom function. Other variants, like youngstown have scrolling bars on the map, and the zoom has some problems with them.

If I may suggest, it'll be great to have an auto-update function for the chat. Expecially in live games, it's very annoying to reload every minute the page waiting for a message. A piece of jquery code (or else) which loads ONLY the chat window every 2-5 seconds would be very useful. Perhaps with the option to switch it on/off, so in slower games there is not so much requests to the site. Or perhaps with a button "check for messages" so a player can check for new ones without refreshing the entire page (for example if he didn't inserted all the unit orders yet).

I really like all of that :)